The story signified Saul's unfitness to rule, as Saul himself should have fought for Israel. Scripture indicates that there were giants on the earth in those days and also afterwards. . Which someone that’s 450′ tall would be able to see and understand when he looked from his her height to these stone drawings. The cubit is an ancient unit of length that had several definitions according to each of the various cultures that used the unit. The Bible DOES NOT say he is from Gob only that is where the battle took place and where Elhanan slew him. Billington notes that an 18 inch cubit would mean the person was about 5 feet 8 inches (taller than most Israelites of this period). Second, it is important to examine the textual evidence for each reading. The bigger a person becomes, the harder it is on their organs. Look at Robert Wadlow (the one mentioned who was 8 feet, 11.1 inches tall at last measurement). These giants where between 10 and 140 feet tall as noted in Amos and in Deuteronomy. Why? I appreciate your research on this subject. The fact that his coat of chain mail was 125 pounds alone… Now I’m sure there are some of us that could put that on our shoulders, but do you think you can fight like that? even allegorically this would not make sense. It is no doubt a very reliable tradition of the text so that’s one reason. Although the story clearly does reference Goliath’s size, which would be intimidating whether 4 or 6 cubits is the correct reading, it does not focus on it. The fact that 4QSam(a) is earlier than the MT and that it, and Chronicles, and the LXX, always agree with each other whenever there is a variant is compelling. Hi Randy Remember that the early church used the LXX. Ten Cubits None of that is meant to be taken literally. It’s hard to see people constantly trying to view the Bible through the lens of disbelief; trying to explain legend with the limited grasp of a small-minded society. Iâm just amazed at the amount of research and study youâve put in to this. i don’t care when in history a human was born 6ft. David and Goliath, a colour lithograph by Osmar Schindler (c. 1888) Goliath (/ɡəˈlaɪəθ/ gə-LY-əth)[a] is described in the biblical Book of Samuel as a Philistine giant defeated by the young David in single combat. As one scholar notes, the point of the story may be to show that “tall” Saul is the right candidate to face Goliath, but he is too fearful. Bible Places I was content to leave you with the final word, but since you insist I will share some further thoughts. It is an evergreen conifer that can reach 40 m (130 ft) in height.” – Wiki. There is a two-foot difference in the height of Goliath between the CSB and the NET translations. I agree, Tom! In the Book of Enoch it speaks to 450′ tall. Studies have shown conclusively that the average American, when challenged to do so, was unable to successfully locate their own backside with the use of both hands, a map, a guide dog, a Royal Canadian Mounted Police officer to assist, and a GPS locator. To add to the confusion, in the ancient Near East, some countries had what was known as the “royal cubit,” as well as the “common cubit,” which would be a bit shorter. Whether this is the correct explanation or not, I can’t say for sure, but my point is that there are other explanations for the size of Og’s bed and the reference may not be to his stature. Others, however, raised on the traditional story of David defeating the giant Goliath, would almost consider it a sacrilege to suggest that Goliath might be in the 6 foot range, as opposed to the 9 foot range. I guess that’s why David killed him so easily, he fell over without his cane! I’m not convinced, however, about his identification of Saul and Labaya. Even though the section begins by stating the Israelites were at war with the Philistines, the individuals named in the following verses who are killed by Israelites are called Rapha. David was not looking at the height of Goliath, he was looking at the size of his God. Royal cubits added a palm for 7 pal… Thanks for the encouragement! Furthermore, 2 Samuel 21:15-22 relates four stories of Philistines who are killed by David’s men. So, my point: Using 25 inches as the base…and calculating 4 cubits and a span, we have around 109 inches (just around 9 feet). This means that Goliath’s actual height could have been anywhere between 6 feet 1 inch and 9 feet 9 inches. What is interesting about the inscription is that the letters used are Hebrew/Canaanite letters. God bless. Goliath’s height as 4 cubits and a span instead of 6 cubits and a span.1 According to Hays, this 4-cubits reading should be adopted; this means that Goliath was only 6 feet 9 inches and not 9 feet 9 inches tall. Shortly thereafter she became pregnant with a child and named him “Lahmi.”, Funny stuff Greg. - 6 cubits and a span -
In the Bible, whose height is given as “six cubits and a span,” somewhere between nine and twelve feet? ), then that makes it a perfectly legitimate source. and assumed it was correct. Now, to really see something great go back into time and you will see and know the truth. The explanation you offer also comes with an agenda and that agenda is clearly seen in your sarcasm toward the biblical accounts. But I would say a cubit is longer than one foot; so, if it's six cubits and a span he would certainly be taller than 6'6. or Co. building cliff fortresses into the mountains? Having said that, I will respond to your previous statements. It is not a question of orthodoxy. There is quite reasonably going to be a mixture of Philistine and Judean and Canaanite cultures. It’s a fascinating study and one that nicely demonstrates how the bible has been changed over time. If your reference is regarding Firth’s point. A few thousand years later, when the average height of a man had increased, the original height of the mythological Goliath was inadequate. The smaller man is a fighter and isn’t intimidated at all by height. Hi Keith, (they can regenerate their nervous systems), we have gravity pulling us down everyday on land where we have to maneuver. 1. He would at the least be well over 7 feet tall. Olive Garden’s one of my favorite restaurant’s. This site uses Akismet to reduce spam. If one could go back in time by looking at the footprints that are imprinted in the ground you would be able to determine the actual height and weight of some of these prehistoric giants. Regarding whether the name “Lahmi” (clearly a semitic name) could be used by someone from the city of Gath (see below why I don’t say “Gob” as the MT of 2 Sam. Just to throw I spanner in the works. Given that the common height of an ancient Israelite was somewhere between 5 feet and 5 feet 3 inches, this could make the common cubit somewhere between 16-17 inches. So the problem is we have one Hebrew manuscript tradition (MT–which our English translations usually follow) that reads 6 cubits while another one, represented by the Dead Sea Scrolls (DSS) and the Septuagint (LXX) reads 4 cubits. I have attempted to answer the “Giant means giant” comment made. My desire is to examine the text and to the best of my ability to understand which reading is the most likely. 9+ feet would indeed be a giant. How Intertextuality helps, John the Baptist and Salome’s Dance Floor, Clothing in Samuel: You Are What You Wear, The earliest Hebrew manuscript, 4QSam(a), which dates to the middle of the first century BC, reads “4 cubits and a span.” Hays points out that this particular manuscript, “The major early Septuagint texts all have this reading.” Hays also notes that Josephus refers to Goliath’s height as “4 cubits and a span.”. Finally, apply the volume formula to solve cubic feet: The description of his tall stature certainly suggests a connection with the descendants of the Nephilim. David said he killed a bear so that God would deliver this uncircumcised philistine into his hand. Those look to be defenses akin to Giants. Hi David, If a guy who’s 8 feet can’t hardly walk, there’s no chance he’s going to be holding a sword and fighting! As a result, I find myself partial to the MT. I would agree that it seems we are trying to rationalize what we do not want to believe here with the 6ft. I can see that being a temptation to Lahmi’s parents. Randy. We also know that the Philistines adopted Semitic gods worshipping Dagon as one example. It would be like 80′ trees or more to feel like that. The well-known problems of scribal errors in the MT of Samuel also contributes to this, as does the fact that parablepsis is a plausible argument for how the reading got changed. Being he was an Egyptian you might use the Egyptian cubit of 18 to 20. However, if we adjust the size of the cubit and span to what would be more likely for an ancient Israelite, then, according to Billing, 16.5 inches would be a reasonable cubit and 7.5 inches would equal a span. I believe in the cubic inches that Galiaths height and the Armies weight he wore was a giant probably approximately 9’9″ almost ten feet tall giving God all the Glory that No matter how short or tall a man can be God is able to stand against anyone that defys this great God. The article by Daniel Hays suggests the heights for the average ancient Israelite mentioned in my paper (5′-5’3″), and he is quoting from Victor Matthews, Manners and Customs in the Bible (1991), p.3. 300 cubits is 135 meters in length or about 450 feet. First, as I know you are aware, there are as many explanations for these two passages as there are commentators and commentaries. This comment from you is egregious. Giant means giant. The story never refers to Goliath as a giant. Were they such cowards that they imagined they were seeing giants. I wish you the best. So how large is large? What about other texts like Book of Enoch and Book of Hasher that are referenced in Jude and Revelation? Sorry for bad spelling. Thus the Rapha are a semitic people and it would not be unusual for some to use Semitic names even though living among the Philistines. there is no reason why he would have feared him. This is just mine. No matter which version of the text you choose (MT or LXX), Goliath, at most, would be in the 9-10 foot range. I don’t have an answer to your question (it’s a good one!) In other words, he argues that the text should read “4 cubits and a span” (you can find one of his articles, a response to Billington, here). Here’s why 9 feet would be out of the realm of realism. Also, I don’t read anywhere in the Bible where king Saul (6+ feet tall) was referred to as a giant so I don’t see why the Israelites would call Goliath a giant if he was only 6 in a half feet tall or thereabouts. No less a scholar than David G. Firth argues in his Apollos Commentary on 1&2 Samuel that “…it can be shown that the Chronicles text form is earlier” (p. 508, note on v. 19). He couldn’t hardly walk, because he outgrew his nervous system, needing a cane to walk- tragically that’s what killed him, because he needed braces for his legs, which ultimately cut him, since he couldn’t feel it, didn’t know, and the infection led to his death. Which is interesting because it’s the length of the Ark. The reference to “Rapha” in 2 Samuel 21 doesn’t really mean “giant,” although the Rephaim were considered to be a very tall people. I also respect your patience with those in the blog who questioned your faith and didn’t seem to read everything you had written based on the different evidence (MT, DSS, & LXX). Being a veteran myself, I can’t imagine being scared enough of a man only 1.5′ taller than I am(6’3) that i wouldn’t fight him. Now, you look at the tallest living person today, who’s around 8 feet, 3 inches tall, and he too needs a cane to walk. Og King of Bashan is said to have a very large bed. Not one time. HIs intentional corruption of the word Bethlehemite should be plain to see. I have no problem with those who want to assert that Goliath was 9 ft. tall. Depending on the size of an individual, the common cubit would be even less than the royal cubit. To give an example of what I’m talking about, the question of whether Absalom had sons or not is often viewed as a contradiction by those who have a low opinion of the biblical text. My understanding of what he’s saying is that even though the “Lahmi brother of Goliath” occurs in the Chronicler’s account (which was obviously compiled later), this particular passage reflects an earlier form of the text. Before using any of the provided tools or data you must check with a competent authority to validate its correctness. That doesn’t mean the solution reached in this paper is the correct solution for every apparent contradiction. Knowing that the sons of God had sexual relations with the human race, that of course I mean the women. The English translations of Genesis 6:4 often read “giants.” The Hebrew word is “Nephilim.” The Nephilim were believed to be very large people, hence the translation “giants.” However this is not what the Hebrew word means, it is a translation of what it “might” mean. It’s readings are worth considering on a case by case basis. Regularly $100. No different than if I said, “It’s raining cats and dogs.” No one would take me literally. Whether this is a correct translation of the word and whether our idea of giants is the same as the ancient idea are points open for discussion. Therefore, although the story in 1 Samuel 17 may not refer to Goliath as a “giant,” it seems certain that other passages indicate he was a descendant of the Nephilim. We are never given the measurements of any Nephilim (We are told the size of King Og’s bed in Deut. If you check the Hebrew text, Goliath is never referred to as a giant. Ps. But I’ll admit, 9’9″ makes the story much more interesting. Some insist that Goliath could not have been that tall, but consider: In modern times, the tallest man documented was over 8 feet 11 inches (2.7 m) tall. The point of this article is to discuss one small (pun intended) point of the story. Goliath is the most well … We are discussing an argument which is irrelevant because the point here is to who belongs the credit, honor and glory is to GOD. Learn the Modern Terms for Biblical Measurements "Cubits," "fingers," "palms," "spans," "baths," "homers," "ephahs," and "seahs" are among ancient forms of biblical measurements.
5 cubit to foot = 7.38189 foot. 1. It is a misnomer to think that only Philistines lived in Philistine cities or that only Israelites lived in Israelite cities. The point is, however, that here is a scholar who is convinced by text form that the Chronicles reading is legit. ð, There seems to be something missing – 1 Samual 9:2. Rapha is the singular of Rephaim, who are a people that dwelt in Canaan and east of the Jordan long before Israel ever came into Canaan (e.g., Deut. Seriously, Lahmi? Peter. Jews and Greeks in the First Century A.D. Bible, Archaeology, Travel with Luke Chandler, Who Was Bathsheba? plus idea. Best wishes and God bless. And the Hebrews may have been short people. All the other Philistine giants had Philistine names. These definitions typically ranged between 444 and 529.2 mm (17.48 and 20.83 in), with an ancient Roman cubit being as long as 120 cm (47 in). If he was strongly-built, I figure he would weigh 850 to 900 lbs. “Great,” you might say, “what exactly is a cubit?” A cubit is the distance between the elbow and the tip of the middle finger, or roughly, 18 inches. The notion that Goliath’s brother must be from Gath originally, means he couldn’t possibly have fought a battle and died in another Philistine town called Gob is ludicrous. They needed the high ground from giants. This is how folklore works. It is clear that 2 Sam. Regarding 1 Samuel 17, as a number of scholars have pointed out, Goliath is never called a giant in this text. God bless, We have to add the word “roughly” because, quite obviously, the length from one person’s elbow to the tip of their middle finger may be shorter or longer than that of someone else. These are the heights we frequently hear referenced by pastors and teachers when commenting on 1 Samuel 17:4. When reading the verse you are attacking and yes you are calling God’s word into question, it seems pretty clear. To learn how we use any data we collect about you see our privacy policy. However, in the building of the Temple of Solomon in Jerusalem (II Chronicles 3.3) 'cubits of … about whether cubit sizes changed over the centuries. This seems highly plausible. How does this theory answer OG of Bashan and his 9 cubit x 4 cubit beadstead? 2. The word for “cubit” in verse 4 and “hundred”in verse 7 look very similar in Hebrew. Well here’s the thing. A pituitary gland disorder resulting in giantism3. Perhaps some items have gone missing. 10 cubits = 15 ft (in other words 10 feet 5 inches) Two cherubims made of olive tree, each of ten cubits high. by manipulating the text to falsely state that Elhanan did not kill Goliath but his brother Lahmi. 21:19Open in Logos Bible Software (if available) has suffered in transmission. This is an educational video that seeks to answer the question as to how tall the Philistine giant Goliath was. and yes it is biblically based. Please, tell us more regarding this problem.In order to be able to answer the daily trivia quiz, you need to have an account. The Hebrew text (MT) of 1 Samuel 17:4 lists Goliath’s height at “six cubits and a span,” while a copy of the book of Samuel from the Dead Sea Scrolls (4QSam[a])Â along with copies of the Septuagint (LXX), list Goliath’s height at “4 cubits and a span.” For all you mathematicians that may be reading this, that is a two cubit difference. we don’t have to rationalize the term to fit our sensibilities. Since the Israelites didn’t refer to their appx. 4. 3:11. However, the phrase “the giant” is used several times in 2 Samuel 21 in referring to Goliath and his sons. Saul disobeyed what God told him to do so he feared his life before this giant Champion of war but David was anointed with oil by the Prophet Samuel and Devil being only a youth of approximately 17 years of age was tested by God to prove his faith in God with a Shepherd’s sling as most left handed Benjamites therefore convinciby David how God would stand with him giving David a righteous indignation against Goliaths defying God in the face of Israel. I have written an article (which can be found on this blog) which was published by Bibliotheca Sacra (July-Sept. 2015) entitled “How Many Sons Did Absalom Have? Furthermore, Josephus, living in the first century AD is also a witness to the reading “4 cubits and a span.”. However, it is never my intention to enter into a prolonged debate. the worlds opinion is irrelevant. 3. I find this very interesting because the bible is dealing with truth and not politics. Now imagine if he is the top fighter with the best weapons and armour? plus is not a giant. I totally agree. Maybe the later manuscripts had to update a change in cubit length? I assure you this is not “an attempt to do away with what the Bible says.” I am a believer and see the Bible as God’s inspired Word. Hi Morris, You have been a gentleman with your responses and it is clear you have an unbiased view which is great! Of course, they might also choose to adopt a Philistine name such as Goliath.The Anakim are also said by the biblical writer to have remained in “Gaza, in Gath, and in Ashdod” (Josh. God bless! Yes, that may be true Peter. It should be recalled that Goliath is from Gath. Similarly, Gob is most likely a scribal error for Gath because Gath was Goliath’s hometown, and if the text is speaking of Goliath’s brother, he would presumably be from Gath also. Sometimes the MT is the superior reading and sometimes the LXX is. Did you know that there are two different biblical traditions for Goliath’s height? None of it adds up to a story worth telling if he was only 6’9. And, if anything, for those who call the Bible a fairytale of scribal whims, it makes them think again. The MT (from which the reading 9’9″ comes from) has a history that goes back to the BC time period. That’s why I provided the links. My point here is that the Bible indicates these people were large, but we have no specific measurements. Hays also argues that it is much easier to explain how “4 cubits” was changed to “6 cubits” rather than the other way around. This was interesting and I agree with Hays to a point on this. Saul is said to be “head and shoulders” above everyone else. Some spend energy trying to explain how Goliath could Even though they were not blood related, the Israelites also shared some common characteristics with Canaanite people (even intermarrying with some!). If you follow the story of Saul in 1 Samuel, it emphasizes his fear and lack of faith. The other link in my post refers to an article by Clyde Billington. Hi Ajam, Taking a cubit to be approximately eighteen inches and a span to equal six, this figures to a height of approximately nine feet, six inches. It is disengenuous to call them all “middle Eastern”. Thanks for your extensive research and knowledge. 2 In other Billington estimates that a person who is 5 feet tall would have a span of about 7 1/2 inches. Giants are not folklore. Second, there are some that take Elhanan to be the one who killed Goliath, but an equally valid, and in my view correct, assessment is that words were accidentally left out of the Samuel text. Some Giants are as tall as the trees of Lebanon and those trees are described here as 130′ tall – “Cedrus libani, commonly known as the cedar of Lebanon or Lebanon cedar, is a species of cedar native to the mountains of the Eastern Mediterranean basin. I appreciate his work. Maybe the four cubits could be the measurements taken from Goliath’s dead body. Please share if you found this tool useful: (adsbygoogle = window.adsbygoogle || []).push({}); A reasonable effort has been made to ensure the accuracy of the information presented on this web site. This leads me to believe Goliath was in the 9″ range. This is an interesting observation frequently overlooked. 20:5. Saul was a head taller than the other Israelites. Humans and dinosaurs never lived at the same time. Click on link for Logos February Sale! The Smithsonian Museum would appear to have been the most notorious thief and misappropriated loser of relics and national archives in the history of the world. It is clear that 2 Sam. itâs really nice to read articles written by a true follower of Jesus. If you are new to Logos, you can receive the Logos Fundamentals Package for only $49.99, for a limited time. Thanks again for reading and for your comments. Tall, with each wing measuring 10 ft. 5 in, making a full wingspread of Solomon’s temple was built according to cubits of “the former measure” (2 Chronicles 3:3), that is, the royal cubit. But to date the evidence points to the normal height of individuals being what I stated in the article–5-5.3ft. Thanks for your comment. That being said, how tall was 3. For some, a person 9’9″ is out of the realm of reality, and they would therefore be inclined to the “more reasonable” reading of 6′ 9″ – 6’1″. When there is a discrepancy such as this, this is what people who love the Scripture should do. Claiming Gob is a poor translation is false and poor study on your part. In my opinion, this may be the case here. If he’s 9’9″ then, he needed a cane to walk like everyone 8 foot and taller did. God bless! Fifteen cubits would be about twenty-two feet, and as the ark floated onward without interruption until it finally grounded, there must have been this depth of water even on the highest summit in its course. 489-508). Thanks, Randy. The shorter unit – common cubit – was based on the forearm length from the tip of the middle finger to the bottom of the elbow and was divided as 6 palms × 4 fingers = 24 digits. Different times and different cultures often result in a different way of assessing things. Let me make a few points: A six-foot tall man can’t possibly appear to be tall enough to be an intimidating danger to the Israeli army. Nor where there any True giants after Deuteronomy. I also respect your patience with those in the blog who questioned your faith and didn’t seem to read everything you had written based on the different evidence (MT, DSS, & LXX). and references from exodus state that the Israelites were as grasshoppers in their sight. Apparently, Sir Isaac Newton argued that the sacred cubit length of the Egyptians was beteeen 24.90 and 25.02 inches. Hey, I learned! 21:19 does) I would offer 3 arguments: Some quick calculations make Goliath’s height, according to the MT, to be about 8 feet 9 inches (8.875), and according to 4QSam(a) and the LXX to be about 6 feet 1 inch (6.125). As far as Og’s bed is concerned. And what about the enormous grape bunches they carried out. Biblical characters did often have more than one name as do monarchs. The passage mentioning his father’s name has been clearly corrupted, leading to confusion. Check out the work of David Rohl. With a cubit measuring 18 inches, his bed was 13 feet 6 inches long (and 6 feet wide). I’ve given the reasons why I believe the LXX has the original reading. The lack of giant bone evidence could be the result of their being cannibals and the Israelites always being ordered to consume their remains in bonfires. Interestingly, even this height is challenged because there are variant readings of this verse. Whichever way our prejudices run, they do not help us get at the truth of Goliath’s height. Other passages do seem to support that the Nephilim (and those related to them) were extra large size. Goliath could be a descendant of the Nephilim without being over 9 feet tall. It's about three-fifths as tall as The Hollywood Sign In other words, the height of The Hollywood Sign is 1.70 times 9 meters. However, while 1 Samuel 17 does not call Goliath a giant, there are two other passages that infer he was a descendant of the Nephilim. When asked if they knew anything about vanishing national archives the most frequent response was,” Mari-whatta?”. But I must admit that the other is, because I’m used to the readings found in the MT (which admittedly is not a good reason). Goliath had much experience in war trainings a very tall man as a giant in Israel interpretations but true that King Saul was head and shoulders over every man stating he was just a tall man but with Goliath a GIANT. Such a clean cut scenario does not coincide with reality. 21:19. God bless! I still stand by my other observations (1,2,3). The Septuagint (Greek Old Testament translation), Dead Sea Scrolls, and Josephus (Antiquities 6.9.1) all have four cubits instead of six, making Interesting reading, but just nope. I have no problem with that. You are, of course, welcome to respond. Its actual length is 1,750 ft, which is 1,193 cubits of 17.6 in (44.7 cm). Clyde E. Billington, “GOLIATH AND THE EXODUS GIANTS: HOW TALL WERE THEY?,”, Robert B. Chisholm Jr’s Comments on Violence in the Old Testament, https://www.biblestudywithrandy.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/04/10-The-Savior_The-Lord-Almighty-Reigns.m4a. Units, Conversion & Calculation Blog | Thanks again for writing. As to your final point. There are videos of a Chinese man that’s a giant he’s 7′ something in the video and it’s not a cgi trick. Hays points out the well-known fact that the MT of 1&2 Samuel has a number of scribal errors. I’ve not really studied Chronicles much but my understanding is that it reflects a date in the 400s B.C. In Deuteronomy 3:11 we read that the bed of Og, king of Bashan was nine cubits long and four cubits wide.
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