. ... One more thing about this vise is that it comes with an end stop that ensures there is no excessive opening of the vise. The face vise is a little harder to do this and avoiding broken dowels is a pretty good time saver! https://www.popularwoodworking.com/wp-content/uploads/popwood_logos-01.png, https://www.popularwoodworking.com/wp-content/uploads/C4-EuropeanBenches-113x113.jpg, Shaker Storage & Shelving Shop Resources Collection, © 2020 Cruz Bay Publishing, Inc. All rights reserved, Shop Blog, Woodworking Blogs, Woodworking Books, Against Perfection, Precision or Accuracy, Free Woodworking Downloads From Lee Valley, I Can Do That! For sticking mouldings, I place a 2×4 against the planing stop and secure it with a batten, creating a simple sticking board. Instead I do as Chris does with doe’s foot and batons. Shannon Rogers also mentioned it in the woodtalkshow some time ago (http://www.woodtalkshow.com/episodes/wood-talk-190-we-all-have-vices/) and referred to this video. I make mine long enough to use almost 6″ over the bench top when I need to. What??? I can open it up, lay some sheetgood on it, power up my circular saw and cut a line through the opened vice. Woodworkers built furniture for centuries without a tail vise. I agree with George, as it's an excellent size for my workbench also, which is 74 x 30. Clamp a board too tightly using any vise, clamp, wedge, etc, is asking for problems in a whole bunch of areas. NB Vice is the British spelling. (Thanks). But if you are a beginner who is contemplating building that first workbench, I’d like to make the case that maybe your first workbench can be simpler, less expensive and easier to build. These are perfect for various applications. But the screw is a regular steel vise … The pre-drilled holes in this tool allow for faster and easier mounting on a workbench. I love it. The tail vise should certainly handle longer pieces. The term wagon vise did not derive from our use of a handwheel, as in “wagon wheel” but rather as a translation of the French term describing this general style of vise. However, it comes in downright handy in disassembling chairs in need of a reglue. I’ll get into that a little at the end. We recommend a 3" wide end cap. Being inside the legs means the vise is suspended between two fixed points and that removes any tendency to flex at all. This is not a review of a specific tail vise or a specific bench, and why write such a review blasting all tail vises, and why do it now? I haven’t been swayed in my opinion of them. Jul 31, 2017 - The Wagon Vise, End Vise, Tail Vise VX20W features quick action and is designed to operate in a 3/4″ to 1-3/4″ wide slot in the bench top, Made in Michigan. The first evidence we have of the invention of a tail vise is a drawing in a codex from 1505 in what is now Germany. I keep seeing tail vises in the projects shown in woodworking magazines. and so on. I found myself thinking along the same lines the other day as I worked a 4′ square white oak table top with a 5-1/2: ‘Perhaps having a couple of holdfasts to dodge and a few blocks of scrap thrown in to reposition every time I want to rotate the work would make things ever so much more interesting that these boringly effective bench dogs…and frozen pizza really is better than a pie from Carlo’s.’, Similar thoughts this AM…’After 13 years and tens of thousands of hours of use, shouldn’t this tail vise be sagging by now…what could I possibly have done to deserve this smoothly functioning vise which demands so little in the way of my attention?’. But I’m sure other readers have great uses for their tail vises and wouldn’t trade them. My opinion differs on several of your points. Yes, they all sag a bit. Like my Benchcrafted leg vise, but also like twin screw vises, and even cabinet style face vises, might choose anyone of them for my next build, but could not live without my LN tail vise now that I’ve installed one. I. Christopher, I built your 18th century bench using five large maple boards for the top. I’m not going to try to convert anyone to any type of vise, I just like to see them all get a fair shake. One advantage the traditional tail vise has over the wagon vise is the open-front jaws. Is a tail vise absolutely necessary? It has one large control screw, and its moveable wooden jaw has a series of bench dog holes along the top that line … Built into the end of a bench (almost always the right- hand end), the end or tail vise, as it is also called, can be used to clamp workpieces to the bench between its jaws. We may receive a commission from sales referred by our links; however, we have carefully selected these products for their usefulness and quality. They are from iron and features replaceable steel top jaws, as well as pipe jaws. Alternative uses of the tail vise…tenon cutting, cutting dovetails, holding jigs and fixtures for pretty much everything, clamping, pulling casework and chairs apart with even pressure, squaring frames and drawers precisely, and a whole bunch else! Have a LN tail vise, installed it last year, and it’s the only vise I’d make sure was on any bench future bench build. If I don’t insert shims to keep the wood from flexing, I can’t get the top flat. You didn’t mention the maker of the bench, probably for a good reason. Made a couple of them, one for the face vise and the other for the tail. I totally agree Chris! Really useful holding things in a vertical position without the chop getting in the way. Based on my experience with the new Lie Nielsen tail vise, could not disagree more with your tail vise comments, but lay that aside for a moment…. This would interfere with the using the tail vise and so I never in stalled one. The end vise; Front Vise . So glad someone finally said it. The length of the cavity measured from the inside of the end cap shouldn’t be less than 13-7/8", otherwise the screw will bottom out at the end of the cavity before the flange contacts the outside of the end cap. The end plates are symmetrical, so you can install the T-handle and quick-release lever in a right- or left-handed orientation, allowing the vise to be mounted at either end of the bench. Round dogs and steel dogs are something I find problematic. About 90 percent of my handplaning is done against a planing stop on the left end of my bench. I have a twin-screw vise on the end instead. If you’re interested in exploring the pros and cons of workbench vises then you probably would be interested in my book “Workbenches: From Design & Theory to Construction & Use, Revised Edition.” In that book, which might be available at your library if you don’t want to own it, I discusses all manner of vises and show how to get the most out of them. On the bench under construction it will be the new Veritas quick release tail vise I picked up at WIA. In the overall view of the tailvise, an identical pair of screws is visible near the left end of the vise. If the workpiece is free to move (in other words, if it’s just pressing against a doe’s foot or batten) then the workpiece shifts around as I work and the shims don’t stay in place. ... for German and Scandinavian Vise Screw fits code 300659. It means you can use it as a tail vise or regular vise depending on your ongoing project. Some people build a bench with a very large double screw end vise and no front vise, but there is no cost savings with that. The Traditional Tail Vise - Followup: 12/21/2010: Last week I wrote about how much I like a traditional tailvise and I got some requests for details. And dogs won’t stay above the benchtop, which requires three hands to clamp a board. And if you have a tail vise and adore it like your firstborn, then Godspeed to you. It stretches across the full end of my bench and doesn’t notch into the benchtop. Chris, I guess this shows why people are different. It is slower to adjust, so I have added extra dog holes in the range I most often need in order to reduce set up time. My workbench doesn’t have a traditional tail vise. I don’t have a tail vise, but I do have a second face vise at the end of my bench, oriented like a tail vise. So if it weren’t a good vise, he probably would have abandoned it long ago. I don’t. Its other term is tail vise because it is at the right or left side end of the workbench. I have been following the class at LN this past week and also on Peter’s blog and it would appear they make extensive use of the tail vise for holding the bowls while carving. My friend had purchased one several years ago from Woodcraft and the same vise was made in Germany and reflected Quality. The main reason why a traditional tail vise is so darn useful is because of the unobstructed gap you get in the front of your bench. Editor Christopher Schwarz and Managing Editor take you on a quick tour of this new piece of bench hardware. This means that you can clamp wood in the vice and saw through it in one go without repositioning the wood. If you make the vise correctly it straightens itself out with light Clamping pressure. Since this was a manufactured bench as opposed to one constructed in a shop by hand, I can see how that would happen. Can you enlighten me on what a tail vise is really for, and why it is necessary? I use round dogs just like you recommend!. Now know why Krenov called the tail vise the “main vise” and it has much more functionality than my old wagon vise,which I liked a lot. I never installed a tail vise, and have never seemed to understand why it is that I need one. Fair enough assessment, but you do hit on the biggest tail vise issues as user error, or incorrectly built tail vises or dogs. Sometimes it because it gives me different access to something being sawn or held. So I do I secure boards on the bench to plane them? I prefer it over a traditional tail vise, because the added jaw length makes it more versatile for me. Or, work can … Gravity and the force of the plane keeps it in position. Never had a need for the steel versions. Andy Rae: Known as a tail vise, this type of vise has two primary holding purposes. As my favorite woodworking journalist, I’ve never felt the need to criticize your work, hope things go back to normal. But again, to each his own, Just my thoughts. Here are some supplies and tools we find essential in our everyday work around the shop. Have you ever worked on a bench with a Frank Klausz style tail vise? I wasn’t impressed. They should be long, square, and have a springy tongue. Benchdogs require a vise, and when I build a workbench, I like to locate that vise on the end. Traditional tail or end vises are typically mounted on the front right corner of the bench and the earliest known record of them is from the early 16 th century. They’re an option, of course, but they are by no means standard equipment, like tires. https://www.popularwoodworking.com/woodworking-blogs/case-tail-vises I honestly think the Benchcrafted tail vise is pretty cool and I like to have stuff and not use it, rather than need to use it and not have it, but the fitting is a big job…. After a while of having this tail vise I realized I barely use it. I built my bench about 30 years ago and included a tail vice which I very rarely use. For me this is this ultimate positioning. When I built my workbench many years ago, I installed a Record vise on the front. The wagon vise is also known as an enclosed tail vise. I went with an end vise with wood jaws as wide as the bench. Now that you mention it, the only time I remember using my tail vice is as an extension. Chris Marshall: A tail vise is usually mounted on the right-hand end of a workbench with a jaw that notches into the corner of the benchtop. That will depend on who you ask and the kind of work you do, but in my opinion, the more options you have for clamping workpieces securely and easily to your bench, the better. I use it a lot. Aug 31, 2018 - The Wagon Vise, End Vise, Tail Vise VX20W features quick action and is designed to operate in a 3/4″ to 1-3/4″ wide slot in the bench top, Made in Michigan. I know that people who love tail vises will howl at this blog entry. Save up to 68% on 7 issues of woodworking projects and tricks. "You mentioned that your mechanism is wood." Most modern workbenches don't use a traditional tail vise, they usually use some version of a face vise just at the end of the workbench, or some sort of wagon vise. As a woodworker, I’ve come to expect you to thoroughly review specific product, and as a journalist, that you stick with empirical data and present it in an unbiased, well structured manner……. Old school tail vise build, with reclaimed old growth Douglas Fir and white Eucalyptus hardwood. , I was wondering how much sag a wagon vise you give — it looks like it should not cause a lot of problems (aside from the major issue of fitting the thing). However, this does not impact our recommendations. Code 300672. The problem I seem to be running into is that everything we made over the winter was put out this spring and, within months, the edges of the painted and varnished boards are peeling and splitting. Bench dog holes at each end and one in the middle of the jaw, with three rows of corresponding holes in the bench top. In my opinion the left the right side of the bench is mostly used for storage or as Bob Easton says sharpening while working on the left side. The small handle on the Gordon tail vise does not lend itself to easily over tightening, at least not for my 75 year old hands with a … . My tail vise is covered 99.44% of the time by a “sharpening station” (laid over the top – not cinched in the vise), which is the best use of the vice. Second, with respect to the metal bench dogs, it sounds to me like the slots were too large for the dogs, way too large. In particular, I would think the discussion would be what is the optimum placement of the holes if the goal is to minimize the number of holes. Chris Marshall: A tail vise is usually mounted on the right-hand end of a workbench with a jaw that notches into the corner of the benchtop. Oh, and when they have to plane boards of many different lengths, they have to move the dogs all around and screw the vise in and out a lot. . For wide boards, I put a batten across the workbench top – it rests against the stop and is held by a holdfast. There are many woodworker who need a prescription for: “NoViceAtAll”. It just all depends on what sort of work you do, and the methods you use to get the work done as to what kind of vise you are going to prefer. A wagon vise does this as well. Bench vice hardware, front vices, tail vices, screw spindles. And I dealt a deathblow to racking a long time ago by an adjustable shimming device that hangs underneath the bench when not in use. Two predrilled mounting holes 7- 9- and 10-inch models offered Clamping too tight is bad practice for everything, not just tail vises. The tail vise is in my experience, most used for planing boards flat. However, … Where might I find some pictures illustrating the use of winding sticks? The vise sagged after regular use, the steel dogs constantly slipped back into their holes (no matter how I bent them) and the vise got in the way of many operations on the right side of the workbench. Properly fitted, bench dogs will take a long time to wear down hardwood before they begin to slip. Machined from Cold Rolled Steel bar stock, the sliding I agree in principle but I would be lying if I said my tail vise is useless. It can hold a rail in such a way to allow you to tap a leg off without busting a dowel. Life is good. – Rich Matselboba. Chris is the former editor of Popular Woodworking Magazine. • If an end vise spans less than the full width of the benchtop, install it flush with one edge (rather than centering it) so you can easily hand-plane stock held with bench dogs. History of the Wagon Vise. I over engineered mine to counter sagging and even made it adjustable per seasonal shifting. Why Am I Telling You This? I placed the Benchcrafted wagon wheel tail vise in the right front corner. – Simple Woodworking Projects, Workbenches: From Design & Theory to Construction & Use, Revised Edition, Infinity Professional Router Table Package Review, https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=WNrof3cd1cA, http://www.woodtalkshow.com/episodes/wood-talk-190-we-all-have-vices/, https://paulsellers.com/2013/03/the-paul-sellers-vise-clamp-system-or/. I would take it back and get a wonder dog or something else. Anything longer than my front vise goes to the tail vise, but my bench isn’t that long, so instead of clamping end to end, I clamp side to side in my front vise. The Lie-Nielsen Tail Vise gives you simplicity of design and function with the ruggedness needed for a hardworking vise. All four can be used for face-planing boards, but the tail vise has several Seems like a no brainer! The Wagon Vise, End Vise, Tail Vise VX20W features quick action and is designed to operate in a 3/4″ to 1-3/4″ wide slot in the bench top, Made in Michigan. It has one large control screw, and its moveable wooden jaw has a series of bench dog holes along the top that line up with the front row of dog holes on the bench. Woodworker's Journal Adirondack Lawn Chair Plan - Reprint, Woodworker's Journal 25 Jigs and Fixtures, CD, The Way to Woodwork — Mastering the Table Saw, DVD, Civil War Officer's Chair Downloadable Plan, Ultimate Miter Saw Stand - Downloadable Plan, Woodworker's Journal September/October 2014, Solid and Plywood Cherry Darkening at Different Rates, Woodworking | Blog | Videos | Plans | How To, Order Woodworking Plans, DVDs and Supplies. The Benchcrafted Tail Vise was first conceived to meet the needs of a Roubo-style workbench with a top at least 4" thick, though it can also be installed on thinner benchtops and can be retrofitted to an existing bench. Dogs…if you build them correctly they stay put. Medium Duty Bench Vises. This is a traditional European type of vise and is very resistant to sag. It is also a "tail" vise since it’s mounted on the "tail end" of the bench. The alignment of these bench dog holes enables a tail vise to secure workpieces or panels that would be too long to clamp across the benchtop using a front vise and dogs. If workbenches were like automobiles, then I’d consider the tail vise to be like the heated seats in a car. First off it came with bent bolts which were promptly replaced by Woodcraft. There are four options for an end vise: a traditional tail vise, a wagon vise, a metal face vise mounted on the end, and a twin-screw vise. The same type of vise also protrudes past the end of the bench as its opened. To separate the body of the tailvise from the base plate, the left-hand pair of screws must be removed with an Allen (hex) wrench. this gives you the perfect way to solidly clamp chair legs, or any long part that needs to be held while you work on it from one end. See https://paulsellers.com/2013/03/the-paul-sellers-vise-clamp-system-or/ for Paul’s discussion. We may receive a commission when you use our affiliate links. Or the vise sags, and the dogs have to be struck with a mallet to get the work resting on the benchtop. Since that first bench, I’ve had the opportunity to work on workbenches all over the world with the best tail vises – wooden, steel, tubular, you name it. Chris, I do have a few comments though in support of the tail vise. Subscribe ». I’m always trying to joint faces where the other side of the work is not flat. Moreover there is no way for it to sag unless the whole bench sags, and the bench dogs are the same style as the LN wooden ones and they work fine. End or Tail Vise. . A cut sheet in the product description would be helpful, as well as a tentative drawing of the block structures to turn it into a completed tail/end vise in the shipped literature. 11:33 PM, December 14, 2010 Second I had to reface the part which has the female threads in it. I also use batons a lot, as well as holdfasts. But some cultures – French, English, Chinese and Japanese – resisted the tail vise until the 19th century when it became ubiquitous on many Western-style workbenches. They can be shoulder vices, front (face) vices, tail vices, or any combination of the above, depending on your ideas! The face vice is fitted to the right side of the bench with the jaws outside the bench by about 30mm. I routinely clamp tall or thick boards at least 1 1/2″ above the bench top without ever holding them in place. You can see the same here https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=WNrof3cd1cA published in 2013 by the English Woodworker with the title “The Holdfast and the Batten – Tail Vice Alternative For Hand Tool Woodworking”. Re: tail vise? Heavy-Duty Bench Vises. The bench legs are indeed 9″ from the end, which will place the vise around 15″ to the start of the vise. Could you consider an article on a related subject to the one you are discussing here – namely, the optimum placement of the holes in the bench so that the strategies you are mentioning can be fully utilized with your holdfasts, etc.? Note the two screws visible near the right end of the tail vise body. He continues to blog and publish woodworking books at Lost Art Press. One for every dog hole, and they recess 1/32″ below the top. Never known you to do such negative generalizations, it’s unbecoming and frankly, very disappointing. When students use them, they apply too much pressure, bowing the work off the benchtop. I need to clarify this. Simply using the vise correctly takes care of that issue. Out of economic necessity, my first three workbenches didn’t have tail vises, and so I was thrilled when I was assigned to review a full-size European workbench with all the bells and whistles, including a tail vise and massive square steel dogs. Whether you're upgrading an old workbench or building a new one, you'll need vices. That being said, I think you are underselling the versatility of the tail vise. My apologies for both the dissent and the poor grammar, the former being my experience, the latter due to typing this out on my phone. But I use it the same way as I would a tail vise — to clamp long workpieces or large panels to the benchtop or to secure pieces like rails and stiles vertically. The tail vise was embraced in Germany and in many Scandinavian countries. It’s slow. Tail vises are characterized by a jaw operated by a single screw, enclosed by the jaw and threaded into an end cap mounted to the bench. An adjustable front stop allows it to function as a standard or tail vise, and as a safety measure, the tommy bar is designed to fail before the unit itself breaks. I am kind of tempted by the Benchcrafted tail vise but, cost aside, it needs to be pretty damn useful to justify the trouble. (I am right handed.) I’m not a one vise suits all work sort of guy, but I do like a good tail vise. Chris – I am curious on your thoughts in using the tail vise for greenwood carved bowls. Not a big deal. Hey, we had to pick something! for crafting furniture, I would have to agree that a tail vise is a luxury that you can do without. I am also found of the Paul Sellers vise-clamp system that I modified for the Roubo leg vise. The vise is mounted in the middle of the large jaw and the end of the bench, and if doing it again, I would use the twin screw end vise from Lee Valley. For maximum vise capacity, the slot portion where the dog block runs can be up to 17" long. For a medium-duty, no-frills bench vise, the Wilton’s 11106 is worth checking into. This style of tail vise is also referred to as a wagon wheel end vise. If you use hand tools a lot a front vise is very useful for drawers and dovetailing. Work is grasped between the main jaws, one of which is the dog-legged end of the bench itself and, as such, offers a particularly sturdy clamping surface. Certainly all metal vises are stronger and able to withstand more abuse, but Frank’s vise served him for over 50 years, his father, his grandfather . A front vise, like the Rockler 9" Quick Release Workbench Vise , is most often stationed at the left corner of the long edge of the work bench. Others call it an "end vise". system for a Tail Vise. He's a hand-tool enthusiast (though he uses power tools, too). When using “fenced” planes, such as a plow plane, I have a number of strategies depending on the width of the work that involve a holdfast and occasionally a handscrew clamp. When I need to traverse boards, I use a doe’s foot and a planing stop. While these approaches allow you to clamp lots of long things and are reasonably versatile I don't think they are nearly as useful as a traditional "L" shaped shoulder or tail vise. As for my tail vise, on my current, commercial bench it is just a wooded face vice in the tail vice position. Sometimes, it is because there’s something in the main vise and there’s a quick second job to do. Even if not, the sag is barely noticeable In use with a good tail vise. Narrow stock goes right against the planing stop. The inner end of the jaw also allows shorter workpieces to be clamped vertically between it and notch in the benchtop.
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